my feet and exactly where i needed more support. i had tired, achy feet. until i got my number. my dr. scholl's custom fit orthotics number. now i'm a believer. you'll be a believer, too. learn where to find your number at drscholls.com. this is a fox news alert. a terrifying night on a luxury cruise ship. at least three are dead and many more still missing after the concordia ran aground and tipped over off the coast of italy. survivors telling us chaos and terror. u.s. state department confirms more than 100 americans were onboard. however, divers calling off the search tonight as darkness takes over. hello and welcome to "justice." i'we begin tonight with greg burke from rome. >> what a dramatic scene last
night. hundreds of people having to jump off the ship as the ship was sinking just off the tuscan coast in italy. there still are dozens of people unaccounted for. the ship's commander is being held for questioning. now, everyone thinks titanic when something like this happens. and from what happened, it was something like that. a reef ripped open the bottom of the ship, bringing in lots of water very quickly. the ship suddenly started listing and the evacuation began but it was a mess. people complaining about that. many of them having to jump in the water. this ship is monsterrous, more than ten stories high. four swimming pools on it. two and a half football fields long. there were more than 4,000 people onboard at the time. it takes this route actually every week so it should know the route very well. passengers many of them german and french tourists, there were two french tourists killed in the incident, although the
largest number of people onboard were italians they are absolutely furious about what happened. essentially about what happened in terms of the rescue. they said it was very poorly organized. it was total madness, total chaos which is why so many people did end up in the water. people not being able to go back to their rooms obviously, just coming up onshore with blankets and nothing more. in total, 4,229 people on this ship. now, finally, there are more than 100 americans who were on the ship. the u.s. embassy saying that according to their reports there are no serious injuries among the americans, however, they do believe there are still some people unaccounted for. americans they believe who were on the ship who are still unaccounted for. judge? >> judge jeanine: we'll have more on this a little later. now, to politics and the race for the white house. governor mike huckabee just wrapping up his second forum giving the republican
candidates a chance to answer questions from the people of south carolina. take a look. >> every issue that would reach my desk i will stand up for the ability of americans to worship god as they choose. i will not proceed down the path that i think you are seeing across this country which is to try and secularize america. >> will you flip flop if you are elected and break campaign promises like obama has. >> you have an opportunity to get to know me best by looking at my record as governor. >> in the first 30 days as president of the united states, what could you do to have any positive impact on america and people like me that may vote for you you? >> the answer is very simple and that is i would lead. today we have no leadership. we have no one who is doing what needs to be done on capitol hill and driving forward the work of the people. >> my employer informed me that beginning in 2013 my healthcare insurance premiums would increase. if you are elected president
how fast will you be able to reverse these increases? >> this is a really good question, chris, because if i'm elected president and don't have a team in the house and senate the answer is not. that is why the election this fall has tobies a team election. we have to try to win senate seats. win house seats. run as a team. >> how can you call yourself a true dirt when you voted -- a true conservative when you voted six times to raise the debt limit? >> i appreciate that robert. it was five, ba by the way, at least that is what ron paul says. i haven't checked. here is the issue. have i voted and worked to get the budget deficit down and balance the budget and take care of the serious issues we are dealing with. unfortunately, when you are united states senator or congressman you are not the president of the united states and you can't unilaterally stop spending which i could by vetoing bills and proposing budgets. so you are in a situation where you can work toward lowering spending and i have. >> i have seen an extreme
number of people taking advantage of welfare and disability. people who have never worked a day in their lives. what is your exact plan to get people off of welfare and keep them from taking advantage of the system? >> one of the most important things that we can do is have a health and human service agency that is really focused on fraud and corruption that we know goes on. i mean there are billions of dollars that can be saved out of our health and human services budget by auditing and having that type of program in place. >> i'm personally concerned about ridiculous regulations by the environmental protection agency. >> me, too. >> judge jeanine: joining me now is governor mike huckabee. governor, thanks so much for being with us. >> well, thank you, judge. >> judge jeanine: i see that you had another successful forum in south carolina. this time for the undecided voters. so, who do you think that the people in south carolina were most interested in hearing from
today? >> mike: you know, from the indication of the audience they really came with an open mind and they listened to all of these candidates very clearly. i thought some of them had a very, very terrific night. i thought rick perry who has really struggled in the polls, struggled to sort of get a fire burning, i thought he had the performance of his campaign here in this forum. he had energy. he was clear. had the audience certainly, you know, cheering a lot at his answers. and again, contrasted to some of the debate performances where he has struggled, he performed masterfully here. i think he had a good night. i think all of the candidates did well. nobody came in and hurt themselves. these were tough questions. they came from real people and the people came up with their own questions. we didn't submit to them a question. they submitted to us a question and we thought they were substantive enough to put on the show and they were strong and i think the candidates showed that they can stand and deliver when it matters.
>> judge jeanine: there were painful stories there about people a little older not ready to retire but you so impacted by this economy. you know, do you think that governor romney gained any ground? he seems to be losing ground. do you think today helped him? >> mike: i thought he had a very good delivery today. governor romney is in a position as, you know, as a frontrunner his main thing is don't lose any ground. i don't think he lost any. he had clarity in his answers. had some tough questions particularly when it related to whether he flip flopped and i thought he handled that nicely. the others in essence have to show that they are better than their other competitors to be the alternative to romney. romney just has to be mitt romney and be that person very well. the others have to show that they are not only capable of beating mitt romney but they have to beat the other guys around them. the classic story of two guys being chased bayberry.
one of them stopped and put tennis shoes anda and he said what are you doing. he said i don't haven't to outrun the bear, i just have to outrun you. i think in many ways that is sort of the picture of this election. people don't have to outrun mitt romney. if you are rick san it tore rum romney. >> judge jeanine: talking about all of the candidates, governor, this past thursday you e-mailed supporters and said it is really time for the republicans to stop attacking each other. i think that is very clear what that was about. do you think that gingrich's attacks on romney are basically helping president obama in the november election? >> mike: i think it has the potential of helping him later on. if romney were to be the nominee i guarantee you, you will see a lot of those speeches by both newt gingrich and rick perry, both of bomb have been harsh -- both of whom have been harsh.
you don't want it coming from inside the tent. newt's biggest challenge is take on the broader issue of growing a healthy capitalism without making it appear that he is personally saying that capitalism and the practice of private equity funds is somehow unholy, ungodly and unhealthy for a strong economy. the other challenge that newt has. he has got to show while it is concerned about its impact upon other people he is not bothered by the attack himself. if two kids in the back seat of the car and family is on a long trip, the kid who says daddy, he looked at me, you know, he looked at me, stop him, make him stop. the other child says dad, reilly wasn't looking at him. he was just admiring what wonderful accountments he had and how handsome he is. one is using leverage and the other child is acting childish. in a political campaign when you are attacked you need to see the kid who says i wasn't attacking at him, i was looking
at him i was admiring what an interesting view point he had. you never want to be like the kid who calls out and said he hit me he hit me because you don't want the public's perception of you as a person who can't take it or takes it personally and calls in someone else to do the defending. >> judge jeanine: at one point seemed like rick perry was offering you the v.p. spot. what did you think of that? >> a smart move to come out and say to the host of the show you are the guy. but that is rhetoric. and as i told him i said i have a great gig at fox, thank you very much but no thank you. >> judge jeanine: and governor, thanks so much for being with us this evening. former vice presidential candidate sarah palin joins me next. does she con doan th condone te tone among the candidates?
>> judge jeanine: governor. governor romney ran saying he created 100,000 jobs in the private sector. let me just say. >> we said we will not allow any comment of the other candidates. >> i'm answering the question. >> the crowd reacting negatively to newt gingrich criticizing mitt romney which was against the rules. joining me now, former governor of alaska, sarah palin. welcome, governor. >> thank you so much, judge.
>> judge jeanine: all right, now, governor, you have yet to endorse any one. did watching this forum this evening cause you to make a decision? >> no, you know, i want to help the cause, not hurt the cause and i recognize that if my name is attached to a person or a cause or a position a lot of controversy seems to ensue with that attachment. so at this point still you know i'm vetting candidates like everybody else and with the intention of helping the next president of the united states get elected versus hurting the guy with a lot of controversy attached. >> judge jeanine: are you saying that you are going to hold off your endorsement until there actually is a candidate, republican candidate? >> i'm going continue to vet along with 60, 70% of americans who still haven't made up their mind. we are going to tune in to debates and forums along with just living life, you know, running businesses, running kids around, keeping the fires burning at home in addition to trying to stay in tune with what the issues of the days are
that our candidates are talking about in order to choose that best person to come up against barack obama and what he has done to this country so that we can get the country back on the right track. >> judge jeanine: did any one surprise you you this evening? >> i don't think there were lot of surprises. i believe newt gingrich was caught off guard when was booed by some folks in the audience when brought up bain capital and free market and job creation claims which is a little bit of a shame, judge. because we can't take a page out of obama's playbook. what happens when you bring up anything about obama's record and this has been going on for about four years now? you you bring up something about his record you are automatically shut up and cut off being accused of being a racist just by asking about his record. well, gop, let's not do that. no question should be censored
or banned. talk about the job creation by the candidate and the candidate being accused of maybe not creating all the jobs that they claimed he can capitalize and explain what his record is. it is important that all issues are on the table. especially issues of jobs. i'm a free market capitalist and i understand how the private sector works and how jobs are created and that cycle of creative destruction some businesses fail, some succeed, some jobs are created, some move into other area. we have to be able to talk about this because i guarantee you barack obama is going to seize with his billion dollars campaign he will seize on the issue of job creation claims made by all of the candidates and he is going to spin it into something quite negative and hurtful to the gop. let's talk about it now, vet it and get it out there. let's have some answers. >> with all due respect, governor, wasn't the booing about the fact that newt gingrich violated the very
rules of the forum by mentioning by name another candidate which he was prohibited from doing clearly by governor huckabee when the forum began? that by his violating the rules and cite sizin criticizing by r candidate that not only did governor huckabee have to interfere, the audience didn't like it either. it wasn't about mitt romney. >> i don't know because i didn't tune in at the beginning. here is the deal judge, microcosm as a person reflecting what america is feeling right now. we are busy people an and we he businesses to run and families to raise and a lot is going on this this country. when we do have opportunity to hear what the candidates are trying to tell us, how they are trying to sell themselves as being the best person to be able to defeat barack obama, we want to make sure that the candidates are concise, that
they are sharp and that they have solutions and not just throwing out sound bites and this is what imseeking as i tune in to the forums and debates. particular rule like that where i guess a name wasn't supposed to be mentioned in a negative light in the forum. i'm not aware of. i don't know how all of that works. again, because, you know, i'm busy along with everybody else. and we are just trying to get to the bottom of this entire debate process. who is it best who can undo what obama has done to this country. what he has done, judge and this is the most important thing to remember. he has allowed for one our debt to gdp ratio to become 100%. our debt is equal to our entire economic output now in this country. a scary thing. that leads to insolvency in the country. we have to undo that. who is the candidate that can undo that and put us on the right track.
>> judge jeanine: we are back with sarah palin, former governor of alaska. now, governor, former governor romney said earlier this week that attacks, a lot of the attacks on him are rooted in envy because he is rich and successful. do you think that this presidential election is going to be all about class war fare? >> well, president obama would like this election cycle to be about class warfare and i think that is quite unfortunate. it is a distraction, the issue is because it is not rooted in reality. i don't think most americans are envious of those who have succeeded and expected and received reward for their strong work ethic and for good decisions. i don't sense in my own life in my surroundings that envy of people who have succeeded, no, but president obama and his billion dollars campaign machine would certainly like to perpetuate that myth that this is all about class warfare. we have already seen him begin
that in probably the last nine or ten months he has really seized on it. >> judge jeanine: all right. and today, governor, there was a group of evangelicals who met in texas who decided that they were going to throw their support behind rick santorum. do you think that this is going have an impact on the republican nominee? >> i think it is a strong message of support, yes, for rick santorum. and, you know, i congratulate rick santorum for garnering that support from the evangelicals. heading into south carolina, by the way, there are lot of value voters there. he who would have the reputation and record proving they have been consistent on prolife issues and traditional definition of marriage should do well in south carolina. but, having said that, recognizing that value voters and social issues are very important in this election cycle and they are in south carolina, jobs are still the number one issue that are on people's minds because there are so many people losing their
homes, losing their jobs, not being able to expand their businesses and knowing that president obama having borrowed $5 trillion more than when had come into office that our debt is increase something rapidly, $5 trillion more and yet there are fewer jobs today than when obama took power. that is quite unfortunate. and jobs, the economy, i think are an even more driving force in this election cycle. there in south carolina it is a reflection of the rest of the country where about 70% of job creators and employers are small businesses. these small businesses neat certainty so that they know they connection and and invest more of what they earn in order to grow their businesses and hire more people. we don't have that certainty under barack obama. we have debt. we have unemployment numbers that are atrocious. a housing market still in the tank. nothing is getting better under barack obama and people there in south carolina realize that. they know in order for job creators to be able to prosper
and share opportunity for more prosperity we need that sent coming from the federal government. that can only happen with tax cuts with government shrinking and becoming smaller and smarter and not enlarge aring itself and taking over more of our lives via excessive regulations and more burdens on us. >> judge jeanine: who do you think is going to win in south carolina? >> i honestly don't know, judge. because the value you voters will come out very strong there. probably more so reflection of value votes than perhaps we saw in north carolina. -- i mean in new hampshire, i'm sorry. but i can't predict who is going to win. don't know. >> judge jeanine: rick santorum selling sweater vests. will you buy one? >> he is selling his sweater vests? well, i hope that the money is going to charity and if the money is going to charity maybe some girls athletic program or something that i really believe in, heck, yeah, i would bid on
a vest and buy one and give hopefully the proceeds would go to something charitable that is worthy. >> governor, always good to have you you on with us. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> judge jeanine: we'll have the latest on that cruiseship that ran aground off the coast of italy. more than 100 americans were on that ship. we will hear some of their stories, next on "justice." m.
>> judge jeanine: this is a fox news alert. survivors of the cruiseship that ran aground off the coast of italy describe a scene of terror and chaos. the captain of the ship has been taken into custody. joining me now from rome is greg burke. greg, thanks for being with us. what is the latest? >> reporter: well, judge, dozens of people still missing. is the main thing. fortunately, the number has gone down a little bit. three confirmed dead. they were initially talking about 70 missing. now, what they are talking is about people unaccounted for and the number shifting between 40, 50, 60. still unclear at this point. the hope is, of course, that they are unaccounted for, that they are some where on the island and have gotten to some people and just through bureaucratic problems and they are not just bodies out there in the water. the hope is that the number of inaccounted people goes down and quickly. judge? >> judge jeanine: greg, what
really happened here? >> reporter: well, what happened was it apparently the ship was much too close to the shore. this is a huge ship. it as ten story ship. perhaps even more than ten stories if you look at the size underneath. but a you can see seven born the water line and it hit a reef and ripped a huge hole into the hull and within about 20 minutes the ship was listing and listing very badly. they tried initially to say it is just an electrical problem, be calm, things be taken care of but, of course, the passengers notice, passengers most of whom were at dinner, had just taken off at 7:30 p.m. local. this happened around 9:30 or 10:00. most of the people at dinner. ended up having to go off the ship without most of their belongings. as a matter of fact, it started listing so badly and then the whole evacuation started. hundreds of people having to jump into the water. fortunately, they were very close to the water -- very close to the shore there at the
island. >> judge jeanine: greg, you say that there are claims that the ship was too close to shore. it is my understanding that the captain of the ship is in custody now. what is he being accused of? >> well, judge, that is, correct. right now it is just speculation what in fact he could be charged with. they are talking about possible homicide charges. there are three dead. possible abandoning the ship. that is pure speculation right now but clearly he has been take noon custody. there was a picture of him being put into a police automobile. the question, of course, is why the ship was so close to shore at this time. this is a route that the ship takes every single week of the year. the company was down there to talk about that. it is a super modern ship. it should know obviously where all of the problems are, where all of the reefs are and how close you can be to shore or how close not. there is a black box and they
will be getth answers from that clearly pretty soon. >> judge jeanine: passengers who have spoken to us they seem to be furious with the fact that the evacuation was not orderly. there were no clear directions. people were falling. >> reporter: complaints about what happened when the evacuation actually started. really people are furious. germans, french, a good number of americans as well. lots of witnesses talking about what happened. they basically said it was total confusion. it was a total mess. as the evacuation took place they were initially told be calm, don't worry about it, just an electrical problem and then saying wait, wait, wait and people were saying the ship was going over so quickly that is how hundreds of them ended up in the water. they were very close to shore there so obviously for most of them it was not a problem to get over. but there is certainly going to be a lot of talk about that and clearly many, many people who can testify as to what actually
happened. the shipping company for its part is defending its practices. they do have more than a thousand people onboard who are employees of the company. they are clearly trained to work in these situations. and know what to do. however, so much water being brought on so fast that obviously getting 4,000 people off of a very big ship is a difficult problem. judge? >> judge jeanine: greg, thanks so much. the state department estimates that 126 americans were onboard the doomed cruise. the embassy has set up a crisis response team in rome to help u.s. citizens. two of them described the first moments after the ship ran aground. >> it was very difficult for the life boats to get down because the ship was very at an angle and so the lifeboat can't go down the side of the boat like this. one of the boats was full of 200 people went down and caught on the railing and the life boat tipped sideways and fell
and swung and everybody screaming. >> in the end, swept oh remember before we jumped off. one of the crew members telling us we need to stay on and that is when mark was saying we don't need to stay on because it was sinking so fast and where we were standing was actually underwater right now so we needed to get off right then. that is when about 100 or 150 people started swimming. >> vanessa rosales was on the cruise with her mother celebrating their birthdays. they junes me now on the -- she joins me now on the phone. vanessa. >> hello. >> judge jeanine: i can't imagine what you you have been through in the last 24 hours. can you tell us what happened? >> you know, it was just very, very surreal. it still feels like a nightmare. we were just sitting down watching a magic show. we had just gotten on the ship that day and there was a big, big bang. the ship tilted and all of the lights went off. all of the dishes fell and the
lights went on again and they made an announcement saying it was a minor technical difficulty to remain calm and that everything was okay. and then within minutes it turned into total chaos. and, yeah, we went from saying everything was okay to an alarm going off and an announcement being said that we needed to abort the ship. >> vanessa, you are watching a show on the ship and then all of a sudden the lights go out. how long from the time the lights go out until somebody actually comes in and assists you in getting off the boat? >> actually we were just there and a lot of people left but they told us to just remain calm so what we did, we just stayed there. and no one ever came in after that to tell us that we needed to abort the ship. it wasn't until i went back to my cab bin to use the restroom
where the lady a staff member started screaming at me that i needed to go upstairs, report to the top floor and i needed a life vest on. >> had you had any training about what to do in the event there was an emergency on the ship? >> no, i remember vaguely that when we got on the ship and we turned on our tv in the cab bin there was like a training from the tv but there was no mandatory training that i remember going through or anything like that. >> judge jeanine: how horrific was what you saw, vanessa? >> it was very horrific. i tried to stay as calm as possible because i know freaking out would make it worse. but i mean people were fighting, people were crying. people were screaming at each other. everyone was just, you know, trying to figure out what to do. there was no direction being given. and it was just a very scary, scary, it was literally titanic. it was horrible.
>> judge jeanine: we have to go. but thank you so much. come home safely. >> all right. >> judge jeanine: up next, what rights do the passengers have? and then, he shot his ex-wife to death while she held their baby. and then shot another man in the face. so why is he free tonight? [ male announcer ] let's level the playing field.
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jeanne italian authorities have taken the captain of the ship in custty. question hes remain. caucuses caused the ship to run aground and what recourse is left for those passengers? michael winkleman, maritime attorney, joey jackson an attorney with us often and mark murphy a travel expert. all right, gentlemen. thanks for being with us. joey, the captain is in custody. might he face criminal charges? >> without question. you have people dead here people injured here and people who are missed. is wanted is accountability. as a result there will be a thorough investigation. in the investigation should they determine that he was negligence to the degree that people died he will in fact be prosecuted. there will also be the issue, judge, as to whether or not he abandoned ship. there is a saying a captain goes down with the ship and as a result of that you should be the last one off. in the event that the investigation reveals that he was negligence to the extent that people died and he abandoned ship before everyone else got off you can expect a
prosecution. >> the whole idea of somebody abandoning ship is crazy. mark, what we have got here is we have a cruise ship, state of the art. $280 million. ten stories high. i mean the titanic was 100 years ago. how does this happen? >> i guess in a nut shell it just got too close to the shore and no one really knows why they did that. they were so close to the shore and they know that reef is there and i guess that is going to be the question that has to get sorted out. they do have a black box on the ships so they will be able to figure out what went wrong and when it went wrong. >> judge jeanine: now, these passengers stranded right now in italy should carnival cruise be bringing them home? taking care of them? what is going on? what normally happens. >> there is a contract. when you book a cruise you are signing a contract and making a contract with the cruiseline and when you make that contract you pretty much as passenger are hand gd your rights to the cruise line. when something goes wrong unless you have travel insurance and have been advised to take travel insurance you are pretty much on your own.
what typically the lines do is step in and make things as right as they can. >> judge jeanine: what are they going to do? give you another cruise. >> that is typically what they do. give you a refund on the cruise you just took. so you don't pay for anything on the cruise you took and get a free cruise later. >> not enough. >> and hopefully transportation back. >> michael winkleman. michael, are you there? >> i'm here, judge. how are you, good evening? >> judge jeanine: you are maritime attorney. thank you for being with us this evening. can these passengers sue what rights do they have? >> they absolutely can sue, judge. and first thank you so much for having me. unfortunately, what has been really a crazy scary, terrifying incident is really just a tip of the iceberg for the passengers. mark hit the nail on the head with the cruise ticket contract because in that that requires these u.s. passengers if they are injured and even grievously injured would have to go that is an expensive and
incredible endeavor. >> isn't carnival based in the united states? >> i wish it were that simple and i have had so many federal court judges say there is no way you can have jurisdiction over there. carnival is here and the parent corporation of costa. but costa makes the argument that everybody buys the cruises in america but you have to sue us in genoa italy. to be clear if this is a costa cruise that leaves out of miami the forum selection clause in the ticket contract would say sue in miami but because this didn't touch a u.s. port they put in a clause that says if you are hurt you valu have to d sue in italy. basically what happens is and the reason why passengers should talk to a seasoned maritime attorney. >> judge jeanine: like yourself. >> thank you, yes, sure, absolutely. but these u.s.-based cruises if you leave out of the port of miami your rights are different than if you leave out of a cruise in europe and i was just telling my dad about this who
is about po go on a cruise. they try to take full advantage of the fact that if a cruise doesn't touch a u.s. port a federal statute -- jonz what we have here is passengers on that ticket that they buy limit the liability basically of the cruise ship. >> yes, but here is whey argue. two things i don't buy, judge, very quickly. the first thing is the journal argument. if you are doing business here. >> judge jeanine: you sue in miami. i disagree with that. >> absolutely. number two, a contract of adhesion. means so one side thed as to not be enforceable. >> for years the courts have sided with the people who run the cruise lines. here is the issue, guys, when you have a captain in custody we are now crossing the line from normal, you know, kind of negligence to intentional acts and possibly if criminal charges are filed wouldn't we now have real causes of action against carnival cruise? >> absolutely there would be causes of action. >> absolutely.
there are real causes of action but if the cruise lines that are fighting industry wide spending billions of dollars in washington and across the world to try to take away passengers rights. they are nice to you with a smile on your face but when push comes to shove and tragedies happen have the best on your side fighting for your rights because they will try to take them away from you. >> at the end of the day they want you to be happy. the cruise lines don't want customers to have problems so they will try to take care of the customers. the key is how they will respond to the tragedy. >> judge jeanine: what we know is in the past carnival cruise has had many, many problems and let's hope that this doesn't affect the whole cruise line industry because i like to go on cruises. anyway, michael, joey, mark, thanks for being with us this evening. >> thank you, judge. >> judge jeanine: the people of mississippi are realing from the controversial pardons by outgoing governor haley barbour. two of the victims speak to "justice." we know a place where tossing and turning have given way to sleeping.
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>> judge jeanine: governor haley barbour stuns the people of mississippi and the country by pardoning murderers and career criminals in the days before he left office. he says he is comfortable with it. but for the the families of the victims, it has reopened very deep wounds. this week, on his way out of office, mississippi governor barbour pardons. five of the convicts released immediately. these men all worked at the governor's mansion as part of a prison trustee program. four are murderers. including charles booker, give and life sentence for the
murder of a high school principal. joseph osmond, convicted of killing a store clerk in cold blood while committing a robbery and david gatlin who hunts down his estranged wife and shoots her in the head while holding their baby. after shooting her he shoots her friend who miraculously survived. walk he her, like many other victims is outraged and living in fear. >> i think the governor himself ought to have to look me and the family in the eye and say hey, i'm going to let this guy loose but there wasn't any of that. that is the coward's way out. >> we wanted to arrest them but i law wouldn't allow us to do that because they have a valid pardon. >> judge jeanine: attorney general jim hood is fighting to get the pardons overturn. >> grave danger. we have murderers out there that have nothing to lose if they think they are going back
to jail. >> judge jeanine: joining me on the phone is randy walker who was shot by david gatlin. dr. john hospicer to was killed by one of the convicts pardoned. jean-patrick dolan, criminal trial attorney and the desoto district attorney who prosecuted the osmond case. i will start with you, randy, you are on the phone? >> yes, ma'am. >> judge jeanine: thanks for being with us this evening. i understand you are in hiding. can you tell us why? >> well, we know now where david is but and we are still in hiding because until he shows in court they get some closure to this matter we feel like we might be in even more danger. >> judge jeanine: now, when gatlin was convicted of killing his wife and shooting you, and he was sentenced to life, did you ever think that you would be in this situation? >> well, at the time david was convicted the law was a little bit different and i knew he would get out one day, probably on a parole but i never dreamed
he would get a pardon. >> and john, do you think that the governor's clementscy powers that i'm going to talk to jean-patrick dolan should include the right to release murderers who have been sentence for life? >> well, every governor has that right to make a pardon and i think it is only fair that we should believe that governor barbour was acting in good faith and not doing something for a reason other than a good faith belief that rehabilitation had taken place. although your heart obviously had to go out to the victims and certainly there are still security concerns. >> over 200. the last minute. before he leaves office. without notifying the victims. without telling people why. i mean it is just beyond the pale. i mean don't you think that even this is a bit much, that it tarnishes his legacy? >> well, judge, you know, 189 out of the 200 were already released and they were simply on parole. sew pardoned them so that they
could have their rights restored but you they weren't released from incarceration. only 26 being considered for release from incarceration and only five released so far. that is the nature of the problem. i think we have to believe that governor barbour acted in good faith and he wasn't doing this to taunt people or annoy people. although frankly you have to believe that the victims are still concerned and there is nothing wrong with that kind of concern. >> i'm going to go to the d.a. here, john champion. you actually tried as an assistant d.a. this one guy osmet who is one of the five murderers released last weekend. were you con evacuated at all -- were you contacted at all. were you able to tell the victim's familys. >> we had nothing. i found out about it on saturday that it was going to be happening. and it was -- that was it. nobody contacted us. nobody contacted the family members. the sister of ricky montgomery who was murdered was also
notified on saturday. >> judge jeanine: and the one guy that we are talking about you tried, he was a robber, the victim, the clerk was shot, he shot him twice in the head when saw he was still alive. is this guy capable of being rehabilitated? >> i certainly don't think so. >> judge jeanine: i don't either! i'm going to go to you, john. i'm so sorry. your system was the victim of a drunk driver who was a socialite sentenced to 18 years who had her sentence commuted by governor barbour to, what, a couple of years in her house or house arrest? >> that's correct. the real question here is are all of these pardons did he make these pardons knowing that only a few of these would get through? ones that where political connections, improprieties and i hope that the district attorney's office looks into this. if not, will the u.s. attorney look into this? in this situation that may be a crime of bias if this occurred. the big question is one, did
the governor commit an impropriety here by trying to put through certain pardons that will only get through and the rest knowing that they wouldn't get through and lead us on a child goose chase? >> judge jeanine: i got to tell you, john, isn't there a difference between that pardon that maybe was done because you got a campaign contribution or knew someone or someone was a socialite and releasing murderers? i mean people who have shown that they are incapable of living amongst all of us. john? >> oh, i certainly think that releasing the fourteen murderers that he did is just incredibly bad judgment because they have proven already that they can't live in society. that they can't abide by our rules. and to release them whether or not he believes slow to been rehabilitating without notifying the victims is just simply wrong. >> judge jeanine: were you notified, john, was your family? >> absolutely not. not until the last minute. to the bigger gentlemen of should a governor of a state
have absolute power like a king to randomly on his last day of office sign off and leave office and let go 200 people and clear the jails. i think in every state legislation has to be put forward to put limitations on this and make the governor jump through certain guidelines before this is done. >> judge jeanine: and quickly to john dolan, i can't even finish here tonight. will this survive a legal challenge yes or no? >> absolutely. absolutely. the governor's pardon power is powerful and the governor has the right. >> judge jeanine: that is it for us tonight. thanks for joining us. e-mail us your comments.